Today's "apology" news, re floor/foundation .

repairs. We've been away so aren't up with the play on this one yet. Apparently 3000-5000 repairs will be investigated and remedied . Do the owners of those places know yet? Has there been information sent out?Tx

junie2, Aug 20, 10:40 pm

david_270, Aug 21, 8:34 am

I hope the finger is well and tuely pointed at Reid Stivens 19yo son and Gail kettles daughter and all the family members who so called scoped these houses, with little or No experience and have caused all this bs for Cantabrians. Start at the beginning and dont be blaming good builders for following YOUR SCOPES. Take some bloody responsibility for the decisions forced upon builders and their subbies.

gillian25, Aug 21, 8:56 am

After what happened with "the engineer" I doubt that much will change at all - too much money involved.

supersapper, Aug 21, 9:13 am

So far, the response seems like 1/2 witch-hunt, half snow-job.

There seems to be a minor concession from Brownlee - that where the builder has "disappeared", then EQR will cover cost of repairing the repairs.

So, they've caught two unlicensed "builders" doing restricted work and are making a big song and dance about it. It takes less than a minute to verify LBP status of a builder on the website. Any idiot can check this, but EQR seemed to be run by a special class of idiots - incapable of even doing this basic step. Or worse - perhaps they knew exactly what they were doing.

So EQR had unqualified people doing restricted work. EQR were calling the shots, and despite "ignorance being no excuse for the law", it would be pretty easy for a handyman/painter etc to be convinced by one of EQR's PMs to do restricted work which "cropped up" during cosmetic repairs - and have no idea themselves that they shouldn't be touching that work. No - that doesn't absolve the worker from blame, but EQC were calling the shots and it's "not their problem". Tui.

If indeed a couple of "builders" claimed to be LBPs when they weren't, then they should be prosecuted. I doubt we're hearing the true story.

It's not necessarily easy to determine if a job is consent exempt or not at the best of times. When repair guidelines kept being revised, and council also revised consent exemption rules, then it got a whole lot harder.

Over the years people have posted photos in this forum of foundation repairs where it looked like bits of old beer crate had been used for packing piles, broken bearers braced with offcuts and a couple of nails - stuff so bad that it was hardly believable. It's not just foundations. Plenty of other restricted work (reclads etc) have been done without consent.

"The survey had excluded homeowners who were still in dispute with EQC".

This seems to be true to form for EQC/EQR. Simpson has pulled this trick before, excluding those who'd lodged complaints about EQC from surveys, then stating that something like 90% of claimants were generally happy, but not tallying the 40% who'd lodged formal complaints which dropped that figure back to about 50% generally satisfied.
Gerry Brownlee response was to evade and apply spin. His new trick seems to be to deflect and blame someone else.

mm12345, Aug 21, 9:13 am

Its a Smoke Screen. Dont worry about the 2 Builders. Not the issue. The SOW has always been in question. The family members at $75.oo an hour and no experience has caused this debacle . Backed up by money misers at the top, trying to save a buck. and pat themselves on the back. Brownlee should GO well and truely. Focus on the issues everyone or else another disaster will develop right under your noses.

gillian25, Aug 21, 9:20 am

One builder on radio this morn said he was told to do a botch job, and so made sure he signed off with "I disagree with method of repair and take no responsibility".
I don't imagine he was the only one, So did many homeowners get works that were actually just "signed off" back at the EQR office ?
I assume that in cases like this there will be prosecutions made (Not).
This whole fraud and jobs for family/mates is going to cost the country for a long time yet isn't it.

gman35, Aug 21, 10:10 am

For Gerry to deny what was happening is a crock.
They played it this way, and are probably not even surprised to finally have the issue partly exposed. Its a numbers game, and they have saved a lot of money through inadequate assessments and repairs.
It should have been said loudly and clearly at the beginning that its up to homeowners to prove their loss, and to ensure that their house is properly reinstated as per their policy terms.
But it certainly wasn't the government that was going to say that.

david_270, Aug 21, 10:51 am

We are renting a house that was repaired while we were here. The landlord left us in charge as we had also had our home home red-zoned and had been through the ropes. The floor is out of level - Fletchers - we will lift and pack some piles - that will fix it. Which piles - oh any piles - four in the middle. Put that on the scope. Rightho - so how does that fix it actually? Oh it will. Hmmmm. So the day came and I reminded them after they had started doing the skim coating and crack fixing that they had some piles to lift and pack. Oh, really, rightho. English and Irish builders arrive - two lovely young men. They took a look, got under the house, looked outside, walked around, checked doors, looked again and confirmed what I believed - the house was on an angle slanting down at one end. So they rang their boss and said work should stop and that all the piles needed lifted and packed using a laser level. Excellent thought I. Not to be - boss arrived - nope - just do the job you are told. But, said the nice wee English chap - if we lift 4 piles in the middle it will make the problem worse. Just do the job said the boss. Sign off day - the Fletcher's man stood in the kitchen with the landlady, myself and the boss man, and we asked - what is going to be done about the house being out of level. Lying, (as we later found out) the boss man said, we applied for a variation and EQC turned it down. Sign here! Fletchers did NOTHING. The nice we Englishman and Irishman returned later to fix some of the roof tiles. I asked them - what do you recommend should be done about the piles? The nice wee Englishman looked uncomfortable and replied, sorry we are not allowed to say anything more. So, don't go blaming the immigrant builders. This property has since been audited and what did the EQC men say - oh the piles are just fine. No, the huge gap under the skirting board would have always been there, the bulge in the laundry floor - well, who knows, the increasingly squeaky floor, the recracking of all the gaps - oh that's just the house drying out. Really!

bigrichie, Aug 21, 11:25 am

Spoke to EQC yesterday about this.
My understanding is the work carried out will be studied by their engineers based on the information they have, photos builders were required to take etc.
From that pool they'll identify ones needing to be inspected via critter camera and they'll start contacting people. I was told they'd get back to me in roughly 2 weeks.

rusticdog, Aug 21, 2:14 pm

Don't believe or trust anything said or done by EQC engineers.
It is officially ok for them to behave negligently or incompetently if their brief from EQC produces that outcome.
Robinson has already been exposed, and Tim Day was exposed in the Kelly case.

david_270, Aug 21, 5:39 pm

Have commissioned our own foundation reports and they show two houses repaired by Fletcher's have not been assessed or repaired correctly! One of them has a concrete ring foundation deemed irrepairable! This is a brick house that was reclad as part of Fletcher's repairs and the exterior foundation was entirely splashed with new render . big f**k up or cover up? :-( I have used the broken heart icon because my experience of dealing with EQC/EQR has broken my heart, faith, trust, and belief in a fair and decent New Zealand. A legacy of not just broken houses but broken people :-(

ronash, Aug 21, 11:11 pm

i wonder what else the eqc scope group action case will turn up when it eventually gets to court.

lambrat, Aug 21, 11:16 pm

Bumping this thread

ronash, Aug 22, 7:25 am

david_270, Aug 22, 9:26 am

Robinson was already exposed way back, on here.
Great isn't it, the info was already there/here early on and the ones that could care, didn't care, because it wasn't their money, and its still not their money.

rover79, Aug 22, 9:36 am

Considering the ongoing repair debacle has anyone disputed their excess/excesses?

angrol, Aug 22, 9:39 pm

Robinson is still employed by EQC

cloffie, Aug 22, 10:02 pm

More news in The Press today. Nice photo of typical EQR directed notching of a bearer. That's going to be expensive to fix now (compared with the 15 minutes with a jack, sabre saw and chisel used by that craftsman).
So Gerry's set aside $500k to fix stuff like this. I can't see that being more than a drop in the ocean. Same with their bunged up crack repairs done on the cheap. Even when it could have been possible to fix those properly from the start, the stuffed-up half-arsed job that Gerry directed is going to make the "fix of the fix" very expensive. Epoxy doesn't stick to epoxy very well - there was really just one chance to do it right.

mm12345, Aug 23, 11:49 am

All this would make a classic "Yes Minister" series, if it wasn't so sad, & with so much collateral human damage.
The "Rebilled".

david_270, Aug 23, 12:31 pm

you can put your invoice on hold until the remediation team has visited and 'issues' with repairs are completed

androoo, Aug 23, 2:20 pm

Does anyone know if cracked concrete slabs fixed with resin are included in the review of foundation repairs? We had a hard time trying to find out whether this was ok or not. Our Fletchers LBP confirmed in an email that there was no need for consent for this work. I insisted that the repair was carried out by a reputable company, Concrete Connect and I am pleased I did. But it has always niggled away at me for some reason.

oskybosky, Aug 25, 12:31 pm

Today I am not so broken, I am determined and proactive! I have just sent off emails and foundation reports to EQC for two properties. I am buoyed by the recent media coverage and have remained factual and concise. Whilst I would like to believe things will be easily rectified, I am not that naive. I would suggest that if you have niggles follow your gut instinct. Do not wait for EQC to initiate contact! Both of our properties questionable and illegal foundation repairs were not in the group all ready identified.

ronash, Aug 25, 3:33 pm

MBIE guidelines say that you can notch 20% of the bearer depth i.e 20mm over 100mm. These guidelines were enforced upon the builders and notching bearers was an acceptable repair strategy ticked off by both EQC and EQR.
If anyone is to blame it is MBIE and the Government for bringing in the guidelines.

corkranb, Aug 25, 4:30 pm

Bump this up. keep it in the News. We dont have any great investigative jounalists anymore.!

gillian25, Aug 25, 10:21 pm

david_270, Aug 26, 6:52 pm

I'm wondering about the folk who opted out but were still really constricted by what the EQC opt out team scoped. Still substandard repairs, but not the builders' fault and no come back.

batty211, Aug 26, 7:46 pm

A significant difference was that you could work with your builder, go through the scope item by item - and in that case the builder didn't have a gag-order, so you could identify grossly under-costed items and both argue it out with EQC. If EQC's Opt-Out loss adjuster was there, then you (the home owner) could bear witness to the whole thing.

With some of these botched repairs, the SOW may have been correct in identifying damage/repair methodology. What you didn't see was how they'd costed it - they did not allow enough to get the work done properly.

With Opt Out - you'd gotten rid of one of the two dirty rats in the basement. With Fletcher EQR gone, things had to improve.

mm12345, Aug 26, 10:36 pm

Looks like IAG were just as bad as EQR:

SR got a better report here, which to be honest doesn't surprise me from what I've seen. The big problem though with SR repairs was/is to actually get them to do anything at all. Worse for rebuilds.

mm12345, Aug 26, 10:40 pm

Is this the sort of "repair" that they will be looking at?

sparkyz, Aug 27, 9:07 pm

Jeez sparkyz, where did that photo come from?

pezarointeriors, Aug 27, 9:31 pm

That is the second attempt to level the floor in our bedroom.
The first attempt had a piece of DPC on top of the pile, instead of the white gunk. At least now the bearer is supported by the pile. Originally there was a 5mm gap and you could pull the DPC out by hand.

I have removed the wooden patented EQC support device since that photo was taken.

One of the new piles they installed under the living room doesn't touch the bearer either.

sparkyz, Aug 27, 10:27 pm

Looks like someone ripped off the govt ans screwed the homeowners and insurance companies.

Someone has to be liable, because this work was clearly not signed off or should i say independently inspected, it seems foreigners have come to NZ, shoved a few blocks of 4x2 under some homes, walked away with $$$ from taxpayers and insurance companies and then shoot off overseas!

nzoomed, Aug 27, 10:45 pm

I don't think that you can call EQC & Fletchers foreigners.
The minister, who was in denial about all this as it was happening, is from Christchurch. The best guys that worked on our house were Irish.

david_270, Aug 28, 6:51 am

Sparkyz, send that photo to Cecile Meier at Stuff. That is a shocker. I thought it was a stock photo!

retrodesign, Aug 28, 9:15 am

The Minister was far more active than simply being "in denial".
He worked hard to "spin" the notion that people who were complaining had unrealistic expectations, were themselves "ripping off the system", or had political motives.

How much of the tens of millions spent by EQC on "communication expenses" went on "spin" vs providing useful information we'll never know - unless there's a future formal inquiry with honest terms of reference.

Those attitudes persist. People come and post such utter rubbish in this forum fairly routinely.

mm12345, Aug 28, 10:54 am

I think even though EQC have to address this they still come out the winners.
I wonder how many more houses would have been over cap had the proper repair costs been included in the original costs.

There is still the drama of dodgy repairs, not a permit requirement, to be addressed aswell. Signed off that shouldn't have been.

rover79, Aug 28, 11:05 am

" The Minister was far more active than simply being "in denial". "
"People come and post such utter rubbish in this forum fairly routinely."

david_270, Aug 28, 11:55 am

aargghhh. - that certainly wasn't directed at you - LOL.

I was on the receiving end of a verbal lashing from a close relative in Auckland a couple of years back, when I had to pull out of flying up to attend a social event - because on the same days we had to shift an elderly relative out of his home as repairs were being started and there was nobody else here (family) who could do it, and I had contractors booked months in advance to commence fixing up the shambles that Fletcher EQR left us with.

The lashing was basically commenting about what a lousy job I'd done by not being able to organise our affairs to avoid the conflict, then a protracted rant about how unfair it was on the "long suffering taxpayer" that "we were all getting free paint jobs for our houses".


mm12345, Aug 28, 12:20 pm

"aargghhh. - that certainly wasn't directed at you - LOL."
I didn't think so, or at least hoped not.

Most of my family & friends out of town, including in Akld have lost interest. I try to explain what a complete cluster%$#@ it is, and that it has seemingly been directed that way, and they just zone out.
Whats scary is locals who don't get it. I talked to someone recently who had bought a Merivale townhouse at auction, it went cheaper than he thought - but he hadn't had any sort of building inspection done. OMG.

david_270, Aug 28, 12:32 pm

Sparkyz, yes, you MUST send your photos to EQC with accompanying details. I sent off foundation reports for two houses and info regarding possible fraud by the builder (local). I got a personal email (not the auto one) today stating that each issue had gone to their respective investigation teams and that they will follow up within ten days. Neither of our properties were on EQC's radar as having deficient foundation repairs, YOU will have to be proactive. Good luck! Yes, this is a great pic to support the media stories coming out at present. If this is how your foundations have been repaired, it begs the question, how good are the rest of your repairs?

ronash, Aug 28, 1:18 pm

A vast number I suspect. Only through opting-out and properly costing our repairs, then a lengthy battle with EQC did we get put "over cap".

This despite our insurer's PM becoming involved, commenting on site that the job was definitely "over cap" and that Fletcher should pull out immediately.

The long story which ensued from that event took two years to resolve.

In return and after a huge effort, we have a properly fixed house, and a sincere two-page written letter of apology from EQC. I got to know the person who wrote that letter. Not all people at high level in EQC are bad, and you could deduce that they have a good idea of what went on in not just our case but others. They're not going to turn on the bad eggs and blow the whistle, but I sure hope they put some interesting stuff down on paper when they "write their memoirs".

mm12345, Aug 28, 1:36 pm

Todays session at the In the Know Hub was interesting.
Anyone who has issues with EQC/Fletcher repairs should go. Its a good opportunity to engage with senior management.
On again this evening 6-7pm.

david_270, Aug 28, 3:05 pm

And yet STILL, no one is calling for Gerry Brownlee's head to roll. Meanwhile everyone else that screws up in government gets thrown under the bus.

subs1, Aug 29, 6:16 pm

Why would john sack gerry when he's following orders?

shells76, Aug 29, 6:37 pm

Key won't fire him. He will be allowed to see it all the way through. The ultimate aim being Brownlee will be remembered for his handling of Christchurch and Key for instigating a new flag,

retrodesign, Aug 29, 7:26 pm

You should note how JK distances himself from all this. He knows - despite Sergeant Schultz excuse.
I doubt Gerry will be sacked, probably enticed to "retire" before the next election and given a knighthood.
Meanwhile, they'll try to keep a cap on all this by throwing all they can into PR spin. When the inevitable happens, and there's a public inquiry, it'll be "Sir Gerry who?" - nah - he doesn't work here any more".

mm12345, Aug 29, 7:59 pm

There is another article in the ChCh Press/Stuff site this morning featuring Underfoot Services (Bevan Craig). This is truly disturbing reading for all homeowners in Christchurch!

ronash, Aug 30, 1:31 pm

mm12345, Jul 4, 3:17 am

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